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Child: Welcome to my mommy’s podcast!
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Katie: Hello and welcome to the Fit Bottomed Zone Podcast. I’m Katie from fitbottomedzone.com, and this episode is all about mold, the hidden threat, and how to detox safely. And I am here with Dr. Jaban Moore, who is an absolute joy to learn from. He has been through his own story with Lyme and mold and recovered from various other things as well.
And at 25, he went from being an award-winning college athlete to not being able to get out of bed. And when he didn’t get answers from doctors, he went on his own search. He was later diagnosed with Lyme and he overcame that and then has now dedicated his life to helping people uncover the causes of their symptoms.
He specializes in Lyme, PANS and PANDAS, autism, parasitic infections, environmental toxicities, and mold. And I will link to his website. He and his team run the Redefining Wellness Center, and they see clients worldwide virtually. And in this episode we talk about a lot of important nuance, if you’ve had mold exposure and how to know if you’ve had mold exposure and you don’t know it.
So let’s jump in with Dr. Jaban Moore. Dr. Jaban, welcome back. Thanks for being here.
Jaban: Thanks for having me. I’m excited. This is one of my first podcasts I ever did.
Katie: Oh, wow. And it’s so fun to get to do follow up rounds. We’re actually going to get to record two episodes, so you guys stay tuned for both. And in the first one, I would love to dive deep with you on a topic that I know you have extensive knowledge on and that is likely affecting a lot of people listening, even if they don’t know it’s affecting them. And that is the topic of mold, mold exposure, toxicity recovery. There’s so much that goes under that umbrella.
I guess to start broad, kind of to determine that question of, is this affecting people listening, even if they don’t know: can you walk us through how someone can know if they’ve had mold exposure and if it’s affecting their health, even if they don’t know of visible mold in their home?
Jaban: Absolutely. This is a extremely common topic. So much so that even the EPA came out and said about 50 to 70 percent of homes have mold damage. The problem is everybody says, well, isn’t mold everywhere? The answer is, yeah, it is. It really truly is in every single household. However, it’s the amount of mold and it’s the type of mold.
So if you’re dealing with things like your typical allergies, wheezing, skin rashing, itching, those are the common mold symptoms that we all know and talk about. The ones that are lesser known is the fact that when mold gets in your body, it slowly starts generating inflammation in the mouth, the lungs, the throat.
So that’s why that’s the first part that most of us understand. After that we just think we’re getting older or life’s hard or we’re tired or whatever’s going on, but it starts getting into your mitochondria through every single cell of your body. Slowly decreasing your energy production, suppressing your immune system and allowing for things like brain fog, fatigue, this fight or flight, overwhelmed burnout type feeling that so many people deal with. Depression or anxiety as that gets into your brain, because when your brain is under attack, you start having mental health struggles. So mold toxicity can generate just a general overall feeling of worn out, beat down.
And that’s what most of us miss is because we move into a house. The house looks beautiful. It’s clean. Maybe somebody just built the house. It’s brand new. Maybe it’s a new build apartment. Maybe it’s an older house from, you know, the 1900s, because it was a beautiful Victorian that we rehabbed, but the mold wasn’t removed from it.
So it doesn’t really matter the age of the home, although newer may be slightly safer on the mold topic, but it doesn’t mean that it is. We move in. At first we think, Oh, we’re just stressed for moving in. And then it starts to become that new normal of a little bit more tired, a little bit more worn down and it’s actually mold. And I see this all the time with people that have moved and that’s one of my biggest first questions for people when they come to me and they have no other generating factor for symptoms and they had no other major health event or they didn’t have a trauma or something.
I’m like, well, did you move around the time that these symptoms started building up? Well, the answer oftentimes is I moved three months, six months before. Or I go to, was there any hurricanes for those in Florida or any sort of major leaks into a home. And oftentimes people say actually yeah, but I didn’t really think about it. And then just to touch on the other kind of knock on mold is well I live in this house and so do four other people.
I’ve got a husband and two kids or a wife and two kids and they’re fine. Well, first of all, kids exhibit symptoms differently. We can dive into that. But, genetically speaking, about 25 percent of the population has a genetic type called HLADR. This is a hard gene, and this gene makes you more vulnerable to toxins.
So just because you live in a house that looks clean doesn’t mean that the HVAC is or behind the walls are. Just because you live in a house with other people and they’re not sick doesn’t mean that you don’t have a genetic type that is even different a little bit than your kids that can be making you sick.
And just because you don’t have the mainstream mold symptoms doesn’t mean that it’s not affecting you differently because you have a type of mold that causes your body to say have liver problems or to have neurological issues, not necessarily the lung issues.
Katie: Got it. So it sounds like it’s very nuanced, especially when people are affected potentially so differently. And it can be like a slow onset, unlike certain, like certain things can be very acute and they’re easy to pinpoint because they happen very acutely. I definitely want to get more into the human element and the detoxing, but before we get to that part, what do you recommend as far as testing to find out if someone has mold in their home. And is it in most cases possible to remediate or is this like a, I mean, you said most homes actually have mold, so I would guess this isn’t like a keep moving till you find a house with no mold situation, but being aware of your environment. So how do you recommend people navigate that?
Jaban: Yeah. So if you came into my clinic and I mean, we work with people around the world. If you come in, we start off with body testing. So I run blood work, an organic acid urine test, and a hair test because I want to look at the different types of tissue from a person to get a lot of different information.
If you have some sort of autoimmunity, it immediately makes me think your body is under a lot of stress. So I’m going to be looking for something stressing you out. Mold can be that thing. If you’re dealing with a lot of other random symptoms, recurrent infections, again, I’m going to be looking for what is allowing these things to come back.
So, within those, if you see elevated liver markers, which is ALT or AST, something’s affecting liver detox, it can be mold. If you’re getting an organic acid test, we have mitochondrial suppression, oxalate issues. If we have a B2 deficiency, methylation issues, which can be B12 or folate, all of these start to signal back like something’s really stressing the system. Mold is my number one go to for that.
Although radioactive elements and mercury can also be on that list. Those are the things I’m going to be looking toward. If you have a hair test done and you have really low sodium and potassium, your body’s probably been under stress for a significant length of time and living in mold is just the perfect recipe for that.
Because oftentimes for the majority of people, although there are people that get knocked down very quickly and have that extreme initial response. Most people it’s a slow onset of symptoms that develop over time and you kind of just adapt to them. So I run those tests to start. And when I see those things, then it takes me to go running a urine mycotoxin test.
So there’s a lot of companies out there that do this. Mosaic Laboratories is one of my favorite ones to do this with. And we’ll run that test. When we do this, and it’s on our website if somebody wants to run it on themselves. There’s a little nuance to it because you’re expecting to pee out mold into your urine, but your body has to be capable of doing detox.
So that’s why I run those other tests first. I need to make sure that your creatine level and your urine samples are elevated enough that I know your body’s going to be doing proper clearance of toxins. I need to make sure that your sodium and potassium is elevated enough that the movement in and out of your cells of toxins and just in general materials is properly happening so that you’re not just holding onto all the toxins because your body’s stuck in this freeze state.
So I run the first test, then I go run the urine mycotoxin test and I know your body will give us the right information. With that test you cannot be taking glutathione, binders, or anything else. So don’t do that, because if you’re doing that, you’re going to bind those toxins and it’s going to change their molecular weight, which is then going to make them negative.
So we don’t want to do that. And then if that test comes back positive, when we have mycotoxins, then from there, I’m going to go look at your home. And you asked, you know, what tests do we do on the home? And is it possible to remediate? The short answer is yes to both. But we have to check your specific situation.
So I start off with a screening tool. Many people call it a test and it is technically called the ERMI test. It’s E R M I test, but this test is really a screening. And if it’s done correctly, it can be a phenomenal screening. And honestly, I find stuff that even really good mold inspectors miss because I’ve tweaked this test a little bit to fit my experience.
And I just love patterns, so I’ve seen the pattern of how this works. So when you run an ERMI test, it’s a dust sample collection test in your home. So you can do it on your own. So it does decrease the screening cost. So you take those Swiffer and you just wipe down dust out of your house. It’s one per thousand square foot of a home is what I recommend to my clients.
I also recommend don’t use any forced air areas and don’t go into a bathroom or a kitchen because those are where water is definitely going to have been. And the forced air areas, which are technically allowed through the ERMI instructions, that means that air is moving through them faster. So if you have a vent on your wall, if you have a air filter that is sitting in a corner, if you have a fan, don’t go to those things because that’s going to have an increased amount of air movement on it, which is going to cause potentially a false positive.
And that’s where ERMI has gotten a bad name. So if we can avoid some of these pitfalls of the test, it actually gives me really good results. Such good results that I’ve had to have with a few clients, an inspector, a building biologist, and then a mold dog, all three come together to find a mold to remediate.
And in some extreme situations, I’ve had somebody who actually remediated their house two times before me, one with me, and then a fourth time, and finally got all of the mold out. And now that person went from, I can’t be around any scents. So you walk past that like Bed Bath and Beyond or a Bath and Bodyworks at the mall and they got a migraine.
They can’t deal with taking supplements or medications because their body is so stressed out. And once we got the house dialed in and it was no longer threatening this person’s health, they can tolerate all those things and they did remediate. Now the remediation truly comes down to what’s the problem and what’s your budget.
I’ve had people where it’s a small problem and they just cut out a little bit and it was on their back deck and that was a big change and they were good. I’ve had people where they’ve had to rip a whole side of a house off. As far as the interior sheet rock because it was all covered in black mold on the inside of the wall, but the outside of the wall was perfectly clean and no one would know it.
I’ve had a situation where a woman here in Kansas City local to me, her HVAC was growing mold so they’re now replacing that. So was that $6, 000. Sure, that’s not cheap, but it’s definitely easier than moving. So remediation truly comes down to where’s the problem and what is the best outcome for you. If you have that HLADR gene, if you are MTHFR, which is 40 percent of the population, if you have COMT, or if we see in some of your tests and your mitochondria are significantly suppressed, I’m going to recommend kind of moving toward that higher threshold of perfectionism, which I don’t like doing.
But making your house a little bit more on the clean side. Whereas if you don’t have those things, I’ve had people where they got it to just good enough. So within reason, so on an ERMI test, that would be like in the rankings of, or HERTSMI 2 test which is part of an ERMI, where you get to about a six ranking through Ritchie Shoemaker’s markers.
And when I work with clients, I kind of tell them that nuance once we see how their body operates, because some of us are, let’s say 6’5. Some of us are 5’5. Well, genetically speaking, we have the same thing. Some of us detox phenomenally. So that friend you had in college that could drink a bottle of wine, wake up and not know it versus that friend that drinks one glass and the next day they’re like, Oh, I’m paying for that. That’s what I’m talking about on can you tolerate mold well, or not. We all have a different capacity.
Katie: That was so fascinating and that was detail I didn’t know about things like the sodium and potassium levels or the creatine in urine and what those can indicate. That’s, and I definitely want to go deep on the detox pathways and supporting the body through that. You also mentioned that kids can exhibit symptoms differently and since a lot of people listening are parents, I would love to just touch on what are some of the differences with children and things to be aware of and watch out for.
Jaban: Yeah. Kids became a passion of mine. And I think that might’ve been a little bit your fault. I started having a bunch of, a bunch of kids come into my clinic because I had worked with an adult who had Lyme disease, which was my story. And then he asked me if I could help his kid and I, and he said, if he’s autistic, can you help him?
And I’m like, I don’t know a thing about autism. And I just, I’m just so bluntly honest with people when they ask me questions like that. And he’s like, well, what’d you do for me? And I said, well, I worked on removing any stress that the body has and allowing for it to work the best it can. He said, can you do that for my kid?
Absolutely. We’re like 11 years later now. Today, as I’m sitting, talking to you, that child has graduated high school, drives a car, he’s gone to college. And before they didn’t think he would be able to ever live on his own. So he’s made some extreme changes. It was really cool cause I wasn’t working with him for a couple of years cause he had just made gains. And I walk into a Chipotle and there he is behind the counter. And I’m like, Hey, how’s it going? So that was my beginning. And then I did a podcast with you and then I had a flood of kids. And kids were coming in with tics. So motor movement tics, verbal tics, throat clearing tics.
They were coming in with ADHD, ODD, ADHD, I mean, I can’t even remember all the different acronyms. PANS and PANDAS, which is a inflammation that’s happening to the brain. And what I found was out of all these kids coming with those symptoms, with frequent urination, with fears that didn’t necessarily make sense.
Separation anxiety from the parents, food restrictiveness, not just like I want this carby sugar foods like most kids do at some point, but I will only eat certain foods. Oh man, what other things come from kids? They lose handwriting, difficulty in school. So a lot of these things can even happen after the fact, right?
So your kid’s in school, they’re doing great. And then all these symptoms start happening. So that’s when you know something has changed. Eczema is a really common one. Even those digestive colicy type symptoms in kids can be due to mold. And what I was diving into with all these people coming in from our first podcast, even was they didn’t know about mold.
I didn’t at the time even know about mold. It’s like a decade ago. And I was running labs and I kept running labs. Like I said earlier, I love patterns. I love looking for solutions and somebody said well, have you ever ran mold testing? And I’m like not really, I haven’t found that to be a big problem. And then parents were bringing mold in from other doctors and I started seeing a pattern. Kids that had these symptoms also had positive mold tests. Fast forward to now I run these mold tests on almost all of these kids and like 98 percent of kids that have these brain inflammatory issues, 98 percent test positive for mold. And I’m like, holy crap is ADHD, ODD, frequent urination is tics… even studies have shown Tourette’s, 25 percent of it is due to brain inflammation.
And I think it’s a lot more than that. I think that this brain inflammation conversation is just, it was only discovered in 2012. We’re 13 years old now to even know what to even be doing the testing or research on it. So for me, kids can have a lot of symptoms that adults could experience, but maybe we call them different things. But it is really prevalent when they’re in mold toxicity and that mold toxicity doesn’t just have to come from your home.
It can come from grandma’s house, church, it can come from your car, and a ton of times I’ve seen it come from schools. Because any building with a flat roof is going to leak and it’s a high likelihood that it’s going to leak and all of our school buildings for the most part have flat roofs.
Katie: So it seems like both in the identifying the problem and in the recovery from mold toxicity, there’s a lot of nuance and there’s probably a huge personalization aspect, especially you mentioned the genetic side and how certain people respond differently. But I would love to delve into the detoxing from mold side of things and understanding drainage pathways more and ways to support the body.
Is there kind of like a triage of order of things to do to help not overwhelm the body? Because I have personal friends who have been through mold and it seems like at least in the short term, the treatment made them feel worse. Long term they felt a lot better, but are there ways to support the body very specifically, especially the drainage pathways to kind of have the gentlest route through mold?
Jaban: Yeah, absolutely. So it is very nuanced. It is very personalized. So you asked, is there an order? And the answer is absolutely and if you aren’t finding somebody that gives you your own personal order, then it can be a rough ride getting through mold. Because your body has, and I mean, I say your body, I mean, not the body as in like a general term.
I mean, your specific human body has a specific path that it’s got to go to get well. So for instance, I’ve kind of gone back and I’ve looked at what do I do with clients that I’ve worked with? And we’ve worked with 10,000 through our clinic. And what I found was there is a common path. And that common path is this, you have to open up detox and drainage pathways, which is just going to be, you got to poop daily, you got to be able to move your bowels.
You got to have the liver capable of moving toxins out. And it can get coagulated junk basically, it can get your bile and the toxins just backed up in the bile ducts, in the pathways, in the gallbladder, where it’s not moving properly.
And then beyond that, you can get parasites, bacteria, and fungal infections that sit in your colon, liver, and then up into the lymph, which is the piece above that, where you’re not, you’re not mobilizing toxins out completely. So if you go to try and move molds, metals, environmental toxins out, they can’t get anywhere and they just recirculate into your system.
So I do an analogy as I’m teaching this, and it’s the analogy of the city. We all for the most part, probably live in the city at some level, we all take our trash out. We put it by the curb. The trash truck comes and picks it up, takes it then to a sorting facility. So it can either be recycled. It can be put into a landfill.
And the third part of that is all the liquid we have goes out into a water treatment plant, right? So that’s your kidneys, your water treatment plant. Your sorting facility is your liver. Your roads is your lymph and your cells. putting stuff out is going to be your mitochondria and your, and your overall cell to put stuff on the curb, to go on the lymph with the trash truck down the street to get to the sorting facilities to go into the landfill, which is the toilet.
So just think of your body like this. If that process is broken, so if you’re dealing with skin issues, swelling, tightness, achiness, if you have itchiness, these are all signs that your lymph is backed up.
If you have estrogen dominance, if you have any sort of liver issue whatsoever, fatty liver, pain under your rib cage on the right side, right below the ribs or right at the top, like at the edge of the ribs there, that’s going to be liver gallbladder. All of these are signs and symptoms that your detox and your drainage is backed up.
And then if you’ve ever done a protocol, if you’ve done mold protocols, parasite protocols, metal, whatever, and you immediately feel more than 20 percent increase in symptoms, you’re not keeping up with your drainage and detox. So your body’s overwhelmed with too much stress because it can’t keep up. So first of all, you have to make sure that your city, your body is working properly.
And that can mean doing a coffee enema to open up your bowels. That could be taking magnesium to make sure that you’re pooping. It can be doing castor oil packs over your liver or doing dry brushing for your lymph. It can be doing vibration plates for your lymph. There’s a lot of tools that we can use.
I also use internal supplements and homeopathics. So I use picana as an internal homeopathic, which is liver, lymph, and kidney support. I love using homeopathics with kids because they’re mostly tasteless, colorless, easy to get in for parents. I use oral herbs if I’m gonna be working with adults, such as a product from self work like drainage activator or Lymph Active, I use KL support or even TUDCA MAX, which are all different liver, kidney, lymph support supplements to help those processes and pathways open up.
And the one that most people aren’t talking about is you have an immune system and that immune system needs regulated. When you’re living in mold, your immune system and your nervous system, so your control mechanisms are going to be stuck in fight, flight, or freeze.
And many of us get stuck in freeze where we’re not moving stuff. So we have to manage that immune and nervous system so that it’s giving the orders to your body to then drain and detox. And if it’s not giving the orders, then you’re also not moving. So as a part of my drainage protocols, we, if we see reason to believe we have immune dysregularity, we could be using quercetin, stinging nettle, or bromelain, which is usually in your antihistamine natural products.
We could be using homeopathics there, like there’s a Genexa or a Boron company where they’ve made an allergy support homeopathic. I do, with many of the people that come into our clinics, we have medical doctors in many states that we have on staff and we might be using medications over the counter, whether that be Zyrtec or Claritin.
We may even go beyond that and have to get into a low dose naltrexone, chromelin, or ketotepin, if people are really needing that extra support because their body’s highly inflamed due to immune mediation problems. And I always love to start fully natural and I don’t go to medication unless we have to. But if we need it we have access to those tools.
I also get people to do limbic somatic and vagal nerve exercises to make sure their body is getting out of that fight or flight pattern that so many people get stuck in. And if you’ve ever met anybody that’s been through trauma or been to war and they come back and they’re just always on the edge of their seat, that’s where your body gets sometimes when you’ve been through long term health struggles.
So we bring those tools of limbic somatic and vagal nerve exercises to do physical therapy on your brain. So we make sure you get out of that freeze state. All of this is going to be unique to what you bring to the table. So we’ll tweak it based off of what you need. And that’s to making sure that your body’s ready to go into mold detox.
So I’ll just throw it back to you. Do you have any questions on that before we get into like the actual detox part?
Katie: No, that was awesome. I made so many notes in the specifics of that. I feel like I have not heard all of those explained so clearly or in an order like that. So that was super helpful.
Jaban: Awesome. All right. So now we get into the meat of it’s like, okay, we’ve prepped your body. Now that we’ve prepped your body, we’ve got to get into the next piece, which is going to be the actual detox. So when you get to mold detox, you’ve probably lived in mold so your body’s been suppressed immune wise. So that means that any organism of any kind that you’ve come into contact with could have started to colonize you.
That can include mold colonizing to your body, which you can see sometimes in organic acid tests, but this is a little bit newer as far as the concept, we’re really just getting to the bottom of this. So there’s not a lot of great testing, more signs for that. You can have parasites, Candida yeast, bacteria, you can have viruses that are especially Epstein Barr you’re going to see off the chart.
70 percent of the time I am starting with parasites because they’re the largest organism that can blockade your lymph, liver, and colon. They also can release endotoxins that stop you from being able to go to the bathroom fully. So sometimes my drainage section includes parasite work. Now it’s going to be more gut oriented, not full body or brain oriented, which is a different piece of the puzzle.
After I get through the parasites, then we’re going to go to bacteria, make sure the gut and the microbiome are elevated. Then we’re going to get into mold colonization and mold mycotoxin detoxification. And from there, environmental toxins, metals, and then viruses, and lastly candida yeast. And the reason that I have that order is one, 10, 000 people that we’ve seen and that’s kind of just the common experience that works.
Now, you may have a different part of this. You may as a person need to start with Candida first and not last because you’ve got yellow cradle cap on your head or you’ve got like a fungal covering on your skin or you have all this fungus coming out on your nails. So we know that we have to basically squish that down a little bit because it’s not going to go away until you get rid of the first parts. Meaning the things that are suppressing your immune system because fungus like candida can grow literally overnight and out of control because it grows really rapidly.
An example that I saw of this and what really shifted my mindset on this was I used to do something called brightfield microscopy. So I’d take your blood, I’d put it on a little slide in my office I would put it under a microscope and look at it. And I’m not always the guy that’s the best at keeping things clean. You know, sorry. So I did this, I walked away from my microscope, I went and worked with my client. I come back and I look at it’s covered in Candida.
And I was like, wait a minute. So when you remove blood from the body, you remove the immune system function, all the sudden Candida can just explode in 30 minutes. Huh? So I went and did some research and sure enough, Candida rapidly, rapidly replicates. But for some people, we have to keep that under control to then be able to go and get after some other things.
But if you have parasites or mold, you’re going to have Candida. It’s just that simple. So when I look at organic acid tests and we see yeast, I’m like, okay, great, why is it there? It’s an effect of a bigger problem. The same thing for Epstein Barr. 96 percent of the population has Epstein Barr virus. It is a problem, but what is allowing your immune system to not be able to contain that?
There’s probably something bigger going on and then once we take care of that, we can come down toward the end of the line and get to these other things. So I gave you kind of my 70 percent of the time direction as far as order. And that’s what I would do with a lot of people. But it’s going to be based off of your body and what we’re seeing with your labs and your symptoms.
And honestly, what you want to see happen first. I can’t say that I can always just go, Oh, you want to stop being tired, I’m going to just fix that first. No, oftentimes it’s, you’re tired because all of these things are eating away at your energy. I give an analogy of a backpack. A lot of people use toxic bucket or these other things, but for me as a verbal conversation with you and for people, just to imagine, imagine putting your backpack on.
We’ve all done this. We’ve all gone to school, had our backpack and put one book in it. We’re fine. You can go run. It’s not going to stop you. It’s going to bounce. Might be a little annoying. Now add 10 books. Each one of those books being one being this parasite and other being that bacteria and other being another mold and then metal and then viruses and then yeast.
And as those books stack up, now put life on it. I’ve got kids that keep me up or are sick. I’ve got a husband that requires this. I’ve got a job that I’m working at. I’ve got mold in my house. All of these are the books in your backpack or the weights that are holding you down. Eventually you put enough books in there, you’re not going to live life well. You might not even be able to stand up. So that’s why for people, when they come in, I’m like, we’ve got to empty that backpack. It’s going to be one step at a time, little by little. And just like you, if you have a backpack with a hundred books and I take one out, you didn’t feel a big change.
But if I take 50 out, you have a big change. We just go down that order of operations based on all the information we’ve gathered one by one by one. And sometimes we can go faster. It depends on your body. And as the backpack becomes lighter, you become lighter.
Katie: That’s such a great metaphor and you gave such a great detailed explanation of how all these things can overlap and how seemingly the good news is, that when we have that full picture and we understand that we can shift the body from a negative feedback loop where it’s dealing with all of those things, to probably relatively quickly a positive feedback loop. Because some similar things address a lot of the underlying causes that might be going on.
And I love that you look at the whole picture of that rather than just one area in isolation. And I would guess that’s one of the reasons for your tremendous success with the people that you work with. I would guess a lot of people listening might have a ton of food for thought and might be wondering if they have some of these underlying things going on in their health.
And I know you work with people and also you have a tremendous amount of resources. So if someone is resonating with all the things you’ve said and wants to get started, where would you recommend as a starting point for them and where can they find you to work with you or learn from you?
Jaban: Yeah, just look me up. My name, Dr. Jaban Moore. I’ve got Instagram, Facebook website. We’re getting a YouTube and TikTok going because part of my mission is just to give people informed consent. Meaning inform them about health so that they can make decisions for themselves. Because when I was going through my health journey, one of the biggest things was I didn’t know what I was even looking for when I had Lyme and mold. I didn’t even know where to go. So my mission is to just put information out there to educate people so that they can then make decisions for themselves.
Katie: Amazing. Well, I will link to all of those in the show notes and you guys listening, stay tuned. We’re going to get to record another episode about pans and pandas, which is something I have not ever gone super deep on this podcast about. But for this episode, thank you so much for your time. I feel like we covered tremendous ground in a half an hour and I learned a lot. And I’m so grateful for the work that you do and for you for being here today.
Jaban: Thanks for having me.
Katie: And thank you as always for listening. And I hope you will join me again on the next episode of the Fit Bottomed Zone podcast.
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